The SatCure Satellite Review # 68

 

IN THIS ISSUE:

* To minimise the message size, these items are not included in the mailshot

December 31st 2003

 

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Hi Folks!

I hope you had a really good Christmas. Happy New Year!

Dish size

Hi, My current dish is only just large enough to recieve some channels from Astra 2d. On a good day, I can get all channels. Of course, I should upgrade the dish, but getting 1.5m+ dishes in Norway is really costly. Having looked at the data sheet for the WF100 cable, I was surprised at how much attenuation I'm getting over 20m of cable - around 5-6 db. As this is more than the increase I'd get over buying a dish that's 30cm larger (1.2m-1.5m is the most I do) I was wondering if there is any way to avoid this loss.

My first thought was some kind of wireless connection between the LNB and the receiver - do these exist and would their s/n ratio be worth the effort? Alternatively, would using a high quality low gain (6db) amp be of any benefit, and can you recommend any? My reasoning is that the signal received by the dish might just be good enough, but this is then eroded by the cable so the signal breaks up. Finally, what about really high quality coax?

I've read the online pages about "will an amp help" and I've bought your book on satellite installation.

Many thanks for your time!

Wireless links don't exist (at least not affordable).

Anyway, cable losses are not significant until they drop the signal below the threshold level of the receiver's tuner. They should have no affect whatsoever on your ability to receive certain transmissions. If they do, then an in-line amplifier will compensate. Dish size is everything. There's nothing you can do to compensate.

Let's look at dish size:

1.2m has a (orthogonal projection) surface area of 1.13 square metres.

1.5m has a (orthogonal projection) surface area of 1.77 square metres.

1.77 - 1.13 = 0.65 sq m.

0.65/1.13 x 100% = 57.5%

So a 1.5m dish should collect 57% MORE SIGNAL than a 1.2m dish!

Thanks for your prompt reply! I did realize the improvement with changing dish size - I get roughly about 2.4dB increase by upgrading from 1.2 to 1.5m dish. The attenuation in the coax is 6dB, which if I could remove it, would be equivalent to a signal increase of 400% (double twice.)

No it wouldn't. It would merely increase what the LNB is already putting out. There would be no additional signal from the satellite. And amplification merely serves to nullify losses. It doesn't amplify what isn't there to start with, nor will it improve signal-to-noise ratio.

So, unless the existing LNB signal level is falling below your tuner threshold, you'll see no benefit by amplifying it. Indeed, you could make the s/n ratio worse. Easy way to test this is to connect your receiver to the LNB with a 1m length of cable. If it's no better then an amplifier won't help.

Think of it this way. You take a pint of beer and water it down. You take a sip and it's horrible. So you fill a bucket with the stuff. You've now got a lot more. And it still tastes horrible.

The only way to improve it is to add more beer.

For satellite signals, the only way to collect more is to use a larger dish. Some people think that a "lower noise" LNB will help but it usually won't. The only LNB that will improve the signal is one that matches the dish exactly. That means its feed horn must "see" the precise dish area - no more and no less. To achieve this usually requires experimentation.

Right, you can't amplify a bad signal to make a better one, you just make a bad signal stronger and slightly worse.

What I'm hoping for is that the signal from the LNB is above the threshold, but after 4-5dB attenuation from the coax, it's below the threshold. Before spending a grand on a 1.5m dish (postage to Norway is colossal) I'll see what effect using 1m of cable has on the signal, just in case.

Then again, I guess everyone with reception problems probably hopes this is the case, and I guess in the majority of cases the signal isn't even being received by the dish, so in the end the only solution is to upgrade the dish. (Which brings me back full circle to your original advice. Sigh - why don't I just listen?!)

(top)

 

Last minute present?

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Buy one of our downloadable eBooks and send the download link to your friend! There are novels as well as technical books.

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Snooper interference

Martin,

My neighbour has a snooper device in his car and keeps forgetting to turn it off. Is there anything I can but to filter out this interference??

Thanks

You can't filter it. The only option is to move your dish (and cable) away from his car.

If he won't cooperate, just report him to the Radio Regulatory authorities. It's illegal to transmit interference. :-).

See the following page:

http://www.radio.gov.uk/publication/ra_info/ra179/sec1.htm

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Dealing with Spam

If you have problems with SPAM please read our helpful notes here:

http://www.your-book.co.uk/spam.htm

Every week we get complaints from customers that we "didn't reply". The reason is invariably that our reply has been "filtered out" or simply blocked by the customer. If you use something like "Spam Arrest" it will reply to our Autoresponder, asking it to "click on the link below". Well, it ain't going to happen so you won't receive our automatic reply.

In some cases this means that you won't receive the download address for your eBook, or the download instructions for something you bought. It also means that you won't receive our order acknowledgement or notification of out-of-stock items and other important information because our Sales Girls have been instucted never to click on links (these can lead to viruses or spam for us).

So, if you order from us or send an enquiry, please give a working email address that isn't filtering incoming messages. We will not give your address to anyone else. We can reply to most addresses but HOTMAIL and MSN addresses can give us problems so we recommend you don't risk it with these. Yahoo seems OK.

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SKY+ in Cyprus

What are the technicalities, requirements to fit and use the SKY+ receiver ?

Have had some bad press that we can't use one in Cyprus ?

The mk1 SKY+ receiver has the dreaded ZIF tuners that don't work in fringe reception areas. Having said that, I witnessed a Pace BSKYB2500 working on a 2.7m dish in Pafos (Coral Bay). It registered zero signal quality and was unable to update its software but it was working!

Although I haven't been able to confirm it, I suspect that the mk2 SKY+ uses the excellent miniature tuners that were introduced with the Pace BSKYB2600. If I'm right then the performance will be as good as you can get.

If you want to watch AND record you'll need both tuner inputs connected to an LNB - preferably an Invacom for Cyprus. Minimum dish size 2.4m in Pafos (2.7 preferred) or 3.0m minimum in Limassol (3.2m preferred) going up to 3.8m as you go further north or east.

Phone connection is not required. The usual terms and conditions apply, plus the £10 a month addition if you don't have a premium package with (I think) 2 movie channels. (This is all well documented elsewhere).

(top)

Christmas Day Cure

Hello Martin

First of all Happy Xmas and a Prosperous New Year!!

Secondly - I need a bit of advice. I have aligned my dish aerial with the help of your Satellite Finder - and although the Signal Strength and the Quality are only approaching 50% the system has locked on and I now get the listings and current date etc.etc. But No Pictures!! I should explain that the equipment belonged to my daughter who lived in Devon but who died 16 months ago.I transferred the Sky Equipment to this address in Cambs and installed it myself. I suspect that my problem might be the Sky Card. It has laid unused in the slot for nearly 18 months and I suppose that Sky could have disenabled the system - is that likely or possible?

What do I have to do to get a picture - I am not particular about joining Sky as there are few of their programs that attract me - I am confused as to the alternatives - as I read it the possibility is either BBC card or Sky card but the literature seems to indicate that Sky operates the lot!! And I cannot believe that this is true. Can you tell me the situation and whether I am correct in assuming that the fault lies with the card? If so, who do I contact to get the magic piece of plastic? Sorry to be a nuisance but having got so far, I would like to finish the job.

I'm sorry to hear the sad news about your daughter. I can't begin to imagine the grief that her death must have caused you.

50% for signal and quality is fine. As long as it says "locked" you should get pictures. Just as a confirmation, you should also see:

  • Default transponder - 11.778V
  • Network ID is 0002
  • Transport Stream is 07d4

Your problem is likely to be caused by out of date software. In theory, the Digibox will download new software within the next few days but you can force it immediately by holding the backup button on the front panel while you switch the 230v power on at the wall socket. Continue to hold the button until ... and I can't complete this without the make and model number ... something happens on the front panel. Probably all the LEDs will light up.

If you connect it to the TV via a Scart lead you'll see an on-screen message confirming software download. Leave the box till it drops to standby after about 10 minutes. The information menu should then indicate new EPG software beginning with "3". (See what it is right now. Probably two point something).

The Sky viewing card will be the old pale blue style which is now useless. In any case, Sky would disable it if the subscription payments ceased. (If they didn'r cease you should claim a credit from BskyB). But you don't need a card to get lots of free programmes including all the BBC ones.

As this reply will probably raise more questions, I urge you to download and read my FREE eBook "Understanding Sky Digital TV" before replying!

Hi Martin

Thank you so much for yesterday's e mail - I have never had much luck with the internet and I can safely say that your website is the first to give me total satisfaction - not only do you give the courtesy of an answer - fast - but the answer really does provide solutions - thanks for all of that - and on Christmas Day too - no one can beat that!!

I now have a most satisfactory range of channels giving me good pictures and far more variety than I had before - so again - thanks - I am most grateful.

Eric

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What is this dish?

I have recently acquired this 1.8m dish here on the Costa Blanca. My local engineer has been unable to obtain a signal to equal even a 0.8m dish. I am of course trying to get BBC & SKY. Could you help on setup procedures or put me in touch with the makers? The tripod legs holding the small reflecter legs were not insulated from the dish - is this significant. Many thanks.

Ron

I've never seen a dish like this but it's a variant of either the Cassegrain or more likely the Gregorian, which is more efficient than a "normal" dish.

Make sure it has a "universal" LNB.

The tripod legs that support the reflector don't need to be insulated. I don't understand why you asked.

The name "Sinus" is most unfortunate, since finding it amongst the millions of entries under health problems will be impossible.

(top)

Cables in the house

Most people underestimate what's needed when they fit cables in a new house. Here's an extract from my eBook "Piping TV Around the House":

"Laying cables.

When I had my house extension built, I installed a satellite cable and phone cable to every room. I thought I'd well and truly "futureproofed" because double-shielded satellite cable is also used for aerial systems.

The first thing that happened was that I got fed up with answering the doorbell to my children's friends. I decided to fit a second doorbell that would ring upstairs next to their bedrooms. Guess what? There was no cable, so I had to use a pair of wires in the phone cable, which meant I couldn't have an extension phone upstairs.

Then I fitted a security camera system. Guess what? I had to use the TV cable going to my office so I couldn't use it for the satellite feed to my computer.

And so it goes on. Here are some tips:-

Our CT63 "shotgun" cable is double-shielded and you can fit this narrow twin cable in the space of a single standard coaxial cable. For satellite signals from the dish, its signal attenuation is rather high, so you should limit the total length to about 20 metres maximum, otherwise you'll have to increase the dish size or fit an in-line amplifier. But at lower frequencies (UHF, as used for RF outputs) its signal attenuation isn't too bad at all, so a run of 50 metres is no problem. And for audio you can use 100 metres!

So this is good stuff to use around the house - both outside and inside. It's thin, robust and high quality and its only real drawback is that you'll probably have to fit the "special F connectors" then use TV adapters with them. Although you could probably fit a standard TV plug if you wanted to.

Anyway, the point of this page is to make you think ahead. What connections could you possibly want to your office, living room, bedrooms, kitchen, conservatory etc.?

I'd suggest the following as a minimum:

Living room/Lounge: Two telephone lines, a burglar alarm cable to windows and doors, an intercom and stereo music distribution cable, six coaxial cables (two from the dish for Sky Plus, one for a standard Digibox, one from the aerial, one from the DAB aerial, one to the distribution amplifier in the loft which feeds other rooms). Telephone "twisted pair" cable should be fine for burglar alarms, intercom and doorbells.

Kitchen: One telephone line, a burglar alarm cable to windows and doors, an intercom and stereo music distribution cable, a doorbell cable and a coaxial cable from the loft distribution system.

Bedrooms: One telephone line, a burglar alarm cable to windows and doors, an intercom and stereo music distribution cable, a coaxial cable from the loft distribution system.

Before you begin you should plan the route of your cable. Avoid fitting it close to cables carrying mains voltage. Not only do these cables radiate a 50Hz "hum" but they also radiate any transients ("spikes") from thermostats, motors and switches. A separation of 100mm should be adequate but 300mm is better. This comment applies especially to coaxial cable carrying aerial signals to a Freeview receiver and to audio cables. Don't overlook the fact that mains power cables can be hiding in walls, behind skirting boards and underneath floors. You can buy a low-cost cable/pipe locater to find these.

In addition, cables should be kept separate from each other. If you run them together over a long distance then signals can be transferred between the cables, despite the shielding. Always keep them a few centimetres apart. (Applies to CT63 cable to a lesser extent as the shielding is very good).

If you run them beneath carpets, make sure they are not "spiked" by the gripper rods. Cables outside the building can be subjected to attack from rodents and weather. If rodents could be a problem, place the cables high off the ground or inside trunking.

Ultra violet radiation from the sun will attack the plastic cable sheath so try to put the cables in shade. Water can be a problem over long periods - even more so if the plastic develops microscopic cracks because of sunlight. I know that some professionals lay cable in gutters but I'm not happy with the idea. Putting the cable inside a plastic drainpipe is probably more acceptable because this protects it from sunlight and water is present only while rain is actually falling. Think about it carefully and use your judgement. Plan to replace outdoor cable every five years. It will often last much longer than that but don't bet on it. Black cable has better resistance to ultra violet radiation than white cable because the black pigment adds protection. Painting the cable with an oil-based paint or an emulsion will usually increase its outdoor life".

New Products

More mountings for dishes etc. on our HARDWARE page 2a in the on-line catalogue. Also silicone sealant. I've updated the downloadable catalogue (at last). It might still contain mistakes (let me know the details - page number etc.) (top)

Special Offers

The Hauppage units sold out very quickly but there are some new items on offer HERE
(top)

From Radio Bullet ( http://radio.mediabullet.co.uk ):

  • See for yourself

From Sky Digi Online ( http://skydigital.mediabullet.co.uk ):

  • See for yourself
  •  
  • (top)

eBook Updates

Since the last newsletter, the following eBooks have been updated. If your download link no longer works, please contact me (with proof of purchase).

  • "March in April" (free). (top)

 

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The SatCure Satellite Review is written for the customers and subscribers of the following websites: http://www.satcure.com 
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copyright © 2003 Martin Pickering